Refer also to Land Ireland's land, class struggles, emigration, etc., Religous Tolerance
Refer also to Land Records
From: Amy DATULL@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:37:23 EDT
Subject: [Cork-L] Lismore papers - are they worth looking for
"Boyle, Cavendish: NL Mss 6136 6898, The Lismore Papers. Rentals, valuations,
lease books, account books for the estates of the Earls of Cork and the Dukes
of Devonshire, 1570-1870. Generally covering only major tenants. A detailed
listing is given in NL Special List 15. Covering townlands in the civil
parishes of Ahern, Ardagh, Ballymodan, Ballynoe, Brinny, Clonmult,
Clonpriest, Ightermurragh, Kilbrogan, Killeagh, Killowen, Kinneigh,
Knockmourne, Lismore, Mogeely, Murragh, St Finbarr s, Youghal"
Has anyone ever accessed these papers? Where are they, are they worthwhile?
Thanks
amy
From:
HI Amy and all,
There seems to be a certain amount of frustration here with trying to access
these records, once you think you've found something that just *might*
contain a reference, yeah even the slightest tid-bit of information about
your ancestors.
As Jean has already stated, there seems to be only 2 ways to get at most of
these manuscripts, as most of them are not published in any source. 1) You go
to the National Library in Ireland yourself, 2) You hire someone to do it for
you. In either case you're talking $$$$$$$, although the 'being there' is
much more appealing than the latter.
Jean and I had one day in Dublin in the National Library while I was visiting
in May. One afternoon is far, far, from being near any kind of time you would
need to examine all of these sources. I, and probably any one of us, could
spend weeks looking at these documents if we could!!
If you got this Lismore papers info from the County Cork Data page, that is
also where I found these two listings before we left for Ireland:
Rentals-c. 1795, all tenants-Rev. Edmund Lombard, Inc. the Civil Parish of
Kilshannig. NL-MS 2985, and
(no landlord given)- NL MS 13018, Rentals c. 1835-37, major tenants only.
Covering Castlelyons, Gortroe, Knockmourne, and Rathcormac.
If any of you have been to the National Library in Dublin, you will
understand what I'm saying. First of all, you walk into the reading room
itself, and I don't know about anyone else, but I was in awe of what my eyes
saw. The room is round, the domed ceiling rises up in the most beautiful
shade of aquamarine blue, and the room itself is filled with long, old,
beautiful wooden tables, and the outer circumference filled with shelves
holding books that are all various shades of leather binding, and it just
fills your senses with the learning and knowledge that is available.......oh,
I digress.....I'm sorry, the place bowled me over!!
Anyway, once I got through the process of getting my temp card, and getting
my picture taken for it (this was necessary precisely because I wanted to
view these manuscripts), I was sent to another building down the street
where the manuscripts are housed. Once a call slip was filled out I awaited
the documents, all the while *praying* I'd find something, any peice of
possible informtion on my ancestors.
The first book brought out to me, from 1795, was so tattered, torn, mouldy,
and musty, I was afraid to touch it!! Not because of the mold, but I was
afraid it would just disintegrate in my fingers. It didn't. The entries were
extremely difficult to read as the aged ink had almost faded from the paper.
I didn't find anything pertaining to my family names, but just having this
book in front of me was really neat.
The second request I made turned out to be large, oversized copies of the
original source records, brought to me in a large envelope, about a dozen or
so sheets of names of places, the person(s) renting that place, and the
amount paid per acre, etc. I was specifically searching Gortroe (in
Kilshannig), as I had just gotten a hunch that might be where my family
originated, before Mallow. Sure enough, there were quite a few Sheehane's
listed in the Gortroe area; various amounts of land, paddocks are mentioned ,
grounds are referred to as commons. It felt so satisfying to see these names,
but as you all know how this goes, I cannot *prove* they are indeed my
ancestors.
I would like to copy the information I have from this page as there are a
number of other names on it. But I was specifically asked, no, told, by the
Librarian in the Manuscript Office that he would make these copies for me,
but that I was not to copy them for others. ??? That's what I was told. I
presume it is because they are from a private, unpublished source.
Anita
From: "Denis Grant"
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:14:54 -0400
Subject: [Cork-L] Lismore papers - are they worth looking for
From the LDS Family History Library Catalog
Title: The Lismore papers. First series : viz. autobiographical notes,
remembrances and diaries of Sir Richard Boyle, first and "great" Earl of
Cork ... from the original mss. belonging to His Grace, the Duke of
Devonshire, preserved in Lismore Castle
Stmnt.Resp.: edited, with introduction and notes and illustrations, by
Alexander B. Grosart ..
Authors: Cork, Richard Boyle , Earl of, 1566-1643 (Main Author)
Grosart, Alexander B. (Alexander Balloch) , 1827-1899 (Added Author)
Cork, Richard Boyle , Earl of, 1566-1643 (Subject)
Notes: Microfilm of original volumes published: London : Chiswick Press
(printed for private circulation only), 1886. 5 v.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Notes and illustrations": at end of each volume.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Index in volume 5 has been filmed at the beginning of each volume.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: Index is not comprehensive. Many persons and places are not listed;
many that are listed have only one reference, when in fact they may be
mentioned several places.
Richard Boyle, Earl of Cork, was a major landholder in Cork and Waterford.
His diaries mention numerous tenants, rents, leases and purchases of
property. His papers are called "Lismore Papers" because they were stored at
Lismore Castle in County Waterford.
Film Notes:
Title: The Lismore papers. First series : viz. autobiographical notes,
remembrances and diaries of Sir Richard Boyle, first and "great" Earl of
Cork ... from the original mss. belonging to His Grace, the Duke of
Devonshire, preserved in Lismore Castle
Authors: Cork, Richard Boyle , Earl of, 1566-1643 (Main Author)
Grosart, Alexander B. (Alexander Balloch) , 1827-1899 (Added Author)
Cork, Richard Boyle , Earl of, 1566-1643 (Subject)
Note Location
Film
Vol. 1, 1611-1620 Vol. 2, 1621-August 1629 Vol. 3, October 1629-January 1633
FHL BRITISH Film
990384 Items 1-3
Vol. 4, February 1633-March 1637 Vol. 5, April 1637-September 1842 FHL
BRITISH Film
990385 Items 1-2
I haven't accessed them.
Denis
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:34:58 -0400
From: "Patty Pickett"
Subject: Re: [Cork-L] Lismore papers - are they worth looking for
Are these papers the same ones referred to as the Sir Richard Boyle Lismore papers?
Boyle Lismore Papers 1611-1629 Volume 6 of the Casey works on pages 339-385
Boyle Lismore Paper excerpts 1632-1637 Volume 5 but I dont have the page numbers here
Lismore Papers by Boyle, 1637-1643 found in Volume 8 continued from Volume 5 pages 2018-2064
Lismore Papers Volume III, Boyle, pages 1758-1807 in Volume 8
You can also find a history of the Boyle family 1566-1762 in Volume 1.
Other things of potential interest:
Kenmare Rentals, Acreage, Ledgers and Notebooks are in several volumes,
1705-1864 Volume 1 no page number
1740-1756 Kenmare Estate Records on Volume 6 pages 1683-1839
Kenmare Estate Ledgers 1790-1811, Volume 6
Kenmare Estate Ledgers 1756-69 pages 1-155 Volume 7
Kenmare Estate, 39 Townland Maps 1720-1725 pages 2596 to 2641- Volume 7
Kenmare Estate Accounts 1779-86, Ledgers 1811-1870 Volume 8 pages 542-549, 646-651, 707-738
Cork and Kerry abstracts from the Leyne Manuscript 1337-1893 volume 11
Patty
Back to the Cork Page