Updated 12 Jan 2004
The following 'thread' was on the Genexchange Co. Cork mailing list.
The submitters were:
Anita
Shauna
Donna Shine
Margaret A Moon
Michael Cronin
Ellie Earley
Patty Pickett
Amy
Colman Ahern
and posted here with their kind permission.
Some of you might remember that disappointment I had last week trying to get
to the LDS center close to me; it was closed down. I resigned myself to the
travelling, and I phoned another FHC about an hour north of Philadelphia to
find out their hours. After I explained why I was coming up there, the woman
asked why I was going so far, and why didn't I just go to the one in Philly?
But they're closed.........surprise, surprise....they only moved, a couple of
months ago. And they moved the FHC only 5 MINUTES drive from my house!!
Oh, I feel like a kid in a candy shop!! This is great!!
This center doesn't yet have a large assortment of film accumulated, in fact,
only a few. Well, it seems there are quite a few for Italy, which will make
my husband happy, and make my life easier when I get to all his lines! I
didn't want to spend time while there on the computer going through the IGI
as I can now do that from home, so I went through the file cabinet and did
find a film someone had ordered in for Ireland's 1901 census---just happened
to be for the mid-east area of County Cork
I didn't make copies, but jotted down a few sets of family names from this
film and I don't know if they will be of help to any of you, but I'll include
them here:
1901 Census of Ireland, film # 0812391
I didn't copy specific family information from these pages, but these are
some of the names I saw: LOTS of Sisks, LOTS of Fordes, also, Carroll,
Corcoran, O'Keeffe, O'Brien, & Foot.
Also on this film, but in Sub-District of Monkstown, Townland- Ballynametagh
(sp?), Parish- Carrigaline & Carrigaline West:
The names: Leahy, Desmond, Flynn, Halloran, Coughlan, Cogan, Smyth, Barry,
MacDonnell, Young, Callaghan, Fitzgerald, O'Keeffe, Twomey, Kennedy, Hurley,
Cahill, Minehan, Kelly, Thompson, Barry (lots) and Crowley (lots)
Of course there were other names, many Murphys and O'Sullivans. And there is
much other information on the census pages that I did not write down. I don't
know if this is of any help to any of you, but since I couldn't do any real
research for myself today, I tried to gather what I could while I was there.
My 4 films are ordered, hopefully will be at the FHC within the next week or
2, and I can't wait to get at 'em!! I ordered 2 New York Passenger Arrival
films for the August 1864 time frame.
I also ordered the Civil Registration film for the Carrigohane, Ballincollig,
Fermoy, Mallow, Brigown and Mitchelstown areas, and another film specifically
for the Mallow area of parish marriages, 1776-1880.
I know it's a slim chance any of you might need any info from these films,
but if so, let me know, I'll look for you while I'm looking for my folks.
Oh, I am on a mission...
Take care all,
Well, I have to thank ALL of you who emailed me privately and directly to the
list with guidance and tips for utilizing the FHC. I'd list all of your names
here, but for fear of missing someone, I'll refrain, you know who you are!
And Marg, thanks for calming me down.....I had a list of about 30 films I
want to order
I have the day off from work, got in my car at 9:45 this morning armed with
all my notes and printed out film numbers from the LDS online catalog, had a
small lunch packed, ready to go.....we're talking as prepared as possible
here! I drove up to the church, only to find the gates drawn and locked.
There were electricians working at the other side of the building, so I went
to ask them if they knew if the FHC would be opening today, of course, they
didn't have a clue.
How do you spell F-R-U-S-T-R-A-T-I-O-N????
(*&*^&^$%$@#@!#@@%^%)*&&!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the midst of gathering my notes and preparing for this new adventure, I
neglected to take care of one very important thing. LESSON LEARNED FOR THE
DAY????
PHONE AHEAD OF TIME TO MAKE SURE THE FHC WILL BE OPEN!!!!!!!!
These centers are staffed by volunteers, correct? So, It makes sense that if
there are
**no** volunteers to be there, then, the center will be closed.
I am seriously disappointed, but not undaunted. I will attempt to find out if
this center is closed down for awhile for some reason, or what is going on. I
also have the option of driving, depending on traffic, about 1&1/2 hours to
another FHC north of Philly. If I have to, that's what I will do. So, since I
have the day off, I'm thinking, "how can I best use my time?"
Remember Marg Moon told us awhile ago she had purchased the fiche for the
1824 Pigot's Directory for Ireland? I am going to collaborate with her in
getting these directories posted to all of you, and Margaret Grogan Turner,
please feel free to incorporate them into your Cork webpage. So, that's what
I will begin doing today.
There is one thing about these directories though that I would like to share
with all of you. Some of you might already have seen the actual directories
and know what they look like, but many of you might not know. Up to now, all
of the directories that I have posted have been only the list of names of
people who are nobility, clergy, tradesmen, etc. But, at the beginning of
each directory, before the names are listed, there is a brief description of
the townlands which includes various information; it's distance relative to
Dublin, some notable topographic features, mention of historic battles that
might have taken place there, mention of famous people who might have been
born in that particular town, you know, things such as that. But I find them
to be very interesting, and informative, introductions to the townlands. I've
decided to begin including them in the Directory posts. I'll denote them as
the 'intro' page,and keep it seperate from the lists of names, so that if
anyone is not interested in this reading, you can skip over this material.
But these introductory notes are included in all of the directories I've seen
so far; Pigot's, Slater's and Henry & Coughlan's. I have not actually seen
for myself Purcell's, Laing's, Fulton's or Wilkie's directories, so I can't
comment on those.
Finally, Val, when I read the following from you, I had to laugh:
Val writes:
There's no other high that compares with opening that envelope and finding
"them" within! Especially the `elusive' ones. I've been known to stand for
five minutes, staring at the unopened envelope. I'm torn between facing
disappointment and saying "Oh, well", and dancing around the kitchen,
pumping my arm like a jock, screaming "Yes, yes, yes"!! I think most of
you would understand that. My family is supportive, and sympathetic. They
think I'm nuts!!
NO!!!! You're not nuts!!!! And yes, I think most of us would understand this.
My son works nightwork and is home during the day. If I'm waiting for
something in the mail, I've been known to phone him from work just to
ask, "Did anything come in the mail for me today?" He KNOWS I am not talking
about the bills, and if he says, "Yeah, there's a big brown envelope here
from Ireland", or "Yeah, you got an envelope from the State
Archives".....well, that just makes my day!! Then I can't wait to get home
from work! And while there have been the disappointing letters, the ones that
are a "hit" are the ones you get the rush from......so Val, yes, I understand!! If
you're crazy, then I bet most of the rest of us are too when it comes to
this!!
Take care all,
I pulled down the index of births from GenFindIt on the web. Armed
with the exact film that I needed I went to the local LDS library paid my
money and ordered the film (or as they say in Dublin - filum). When it came
I found what I was looking for on the index and it said that it was on the
Register, Volume 20 page 356. No one at the LDS library knew what to do
after that. Does anyone know if the LDS has a film of the Registers or do I
have to write to Dublin at the National Archives to get a copy of the birth
certificate that I am looking for.
Any info will be gratefully received.
Shauna
Shauna asked how to go about getting the actual birth, marriage, death
records once you've got the information from the index. My local FHC
has a book on Ireland records with the films for the indices in the
front of each section and the films with the actual records behind.
Once you have the info off the index you can 1) order the film with
the actual records from Salt Lake if your FHC doesn't have it. This
takes a minimum of 2 weeks (sometimes a lot longer) and costs $4 or;
2) order a photocopy of the acutal record from Dublin which usually
takes 3 weeks and I send $3. The cost is somewhere in the $2.50 range
with the exchange rate, but I always send a little extra in case the
cost has changed. If I know the person on the index is who I'm
looking for I order from Dublin. If I'm not sure I order the film. I
try to keep my requests from the Dublin office to only the sure
things. I'd rather not take up their time on something I can research
myself.
The address in Dublin to write to for b,m,d records is:
General Register Office
Joyce House
8-11 Lombard Street East
Dublin 2, Ireland
Hope this helps.
Michael, I am aware how it is done in Australia. I have a friend there
and she is VERY frustrated on how long it takes to get a film from Salt
Lake. I have ordered films here for her and did the search. Takes only
two or three weeks here depending on whether Salt Lake needs to make a
copy or not.
May I make a suggestion to some in regards to Civil Reg. in
Ireland. Just order the Index, after you get the film look up the Year,
Vol. & Page numbers. Then go back to the Library Catalog, find the film
number for the actual record then ask a volunteer for the form # 31768
Request for Photocopies. Fill it out, send to Salt Lake and at .25 per
copy up to 8 copies. they will do all the Photocoping for you. You save
the cost of 8 films. A mininum charge of $2.00 US. Plus there is no need
to send to Ireland as it is the original registration of the event.
Deaths, are very limited as a great deal of those records after 1871 were
destroyed, but you can still get the indices. Of course after 1922 there
is no problem.
When looking something up in the Catalog for Ireland it depends on
what you want. Do you want something for all of Ireland? For example the
Civil Registration. Then look under Ireland. When you go through each
item, you will notice at the bottom "Record Found Under", it will list
where else that record is listed, I.E. county, History Ireland,
Folklore Ireland as an example.
Naturally, if you want to find something pertaining to Cork, look under
Cork first, then try Ireland, if it isn't there, that would make it a
national type record.
Hope this helps some of you.
Marg
Outside the US there are a series of distribution centres which hold films
on permanent loan for the local FHCs. In my case the centre is located in
Australia (the former Auckland centre merged with Australia at the beginning
of this year) which must serve a population of about 20 million.
If I order a film, which has never been ordered in Australia before, it is
copied from the original in Salt Lake City and goes on permanent loan to the
Australian distribution centre, they then send it to my local FHC where I
have the use of it for about three weeks. When I am finished with it, it
goes back to Australia where it becomes available to anyone in the area
covered by that centre.
My local FHC carries only a very few films, most need to be ordered on three
week loan at a cost of NZ$4.50. If they come from Australia it takes about
two weeks, Salt Lake City can take anything from eight weeks to six months
or more.
I would also like to say that my local FHC volunteers are some of the most
friendly and helpful people I have met.
Michael Cronin
One more note about the FHC. One of the things that makes finding
material difficult is figuring out how it is listed. Here are three
possible ways for an item from Cork City. It could be listed under:
Ireland
Cork, Ireland
Cork City, Cork, Ireland
You won't find it under all three categories. It will be under one but
not the other two. The trick is to figure out which one. THis is true
for all films, not just Ireland.
Maybe Margaret can explain how to tell which is the best way to search.
I just try another breakdown if I don't find it on the first try.
Ellie
Hi Anita,
Sorry I'm a bit late with this. The story of my life lately - I've been
away!
A whole new world of research is awaiting you at the FHC!! Others have
given you tons of information. The tuppence-worth I would add is:
I've only been at this for a little over a year. I've visited the FHC
weekly during that time. My family is flabergasted at the amount of actual
documentation I've been able to acquire through the indexes of births,
marriages and deaths. When I started out I had very vague information
regarding names, dates, etc. I now have over 30 photocopies of BMD's. They
are all common names, so required some detective work. Doesn't sound like
much, but these photocopies contain a wealth of information, as well as
leads to other areas. They are also "proof positive".
My local FHC has these films in their permanent collection. I don't have a
list to give you off-hand, but what I can read quickly from my records:
e.g., the index film for births in 1874 is #101,051 - 1877 #101,054 - 1878
#10,1055. They are numbered sequentially, beginning in the year 1864. The
marriages and deaths will be similar. You must have the Poor Law Union /
Registration District for your ancestor. The index will show you Name,
Registration District (Poor Law Union), Volume, Page Number. Record all
this. Once you zero in, you can send to the General Register Office in
Dublin with this information for a photocopy of the entry. Cost is £1.50
for each. The GRO will accept American funds.
Address is:
General Register Office
There's no other high that compares with opening that envelope and finding
"them" within! Especially the `elusive' ones. I've been known to stand for
five minutes, staring at the unopened envelope. I'm torn between facing
disappointment and saying "Oh, well", and dancing around the kitchen,
pumping my arm like a jock, screaming "Yes, yes, yes"!! I think most of
you would understand that. My family is supportive, and sympathetic. They
think I'm nuts!!
Good luck, Anita. If I haven't been clear, please contact me.
Val - London, Ont.
Next, re work at the LDS centers. I have been doing my own research for
about 8 years. I went to the one in Berlin Vt early
on, as everybody said they could do so much there. While they
had some things on hand, they had next to nothing for Irish research. So
I spent the next years doing town clerks, vitals, etc.
About four years ago I discovered there was a center in Shaftsbury Vt, and
as it is an easier drive for me, Megan and I
headed down there at night. WELL, nobody told me there were
two church buildings on the same road and we ended up coming into the
first one, wrong building, but they graciously allowed me to
use the potty. There was more to be found when I got to the
correct site, but still not my folks ( and I did a quick sampling of
all of my names, Conlan/Radigan/Lucas/Sullivan/Usher/O'brien/
Mann/Hester/Kennedy/Duggan/Murphy/Pickett/Flynn/Donnelly/Burns/Cunningham)
but had no luck.
Just this year an LDS FHC opened up less than four miles from my home. I
went in to see what they had and they were bare bones but I began ordering
things. I already had a fiche reader at home and I had purchased the IGI
for all of Ireland from the LDS earlier, as well as the locality index for
all of Ireland and I went through that and identified things I wanted to
order.
Now I have about 20 fiche permanently purchases ( at a mere fifteen cents
per fiche). I also have all of the Casey rolls of film on permanent loan
as they call it at the center. The film costs $3.25 for the initial
rental, and can be renewed twice more - at the second renewal it is on
permanent loan to the center. So to keep a single roll on permanent loan
it costs $9.75. There are 8 film rolls in the Casey collection, so I have
invested $78 on that so far, as well as having ordered the index to all
the rolls and kept that at another $9.75. In my mind they are worth their
weight in gold.
I have not gotten into passenger lists, as that is an exercise in
futility for me at this point. I have only collected Cork data so
far, even though my families come from many parts of the country.
Eventually I will get to a point in Cork where I have gone as far as I can
and put my Pickett and Flynn names aside for awhile and try somebody else
and I will begin ordering more film, probably for County Clare this time,
as that is where my Michael Lucas and Margaret Sullivan great greats came
from. I think she was born in County Kerry though.
At any rate, I find the LDS FHC invaluable to me. I do not have
access to a large library - our small one in Rutland only has the
first three books in the Filby passenger list series for instance.
I would love to check out the other 12 or whatever books for
my Picketts but that won't be happening soon. The staff at
my FHC is very well versed in local/New England history but
not at all in Irish and for lack of a better person I tend to serve
as the resident expert and we all know I am not that.
They are warm and friendly family to me and I like going there.
Sorry this is so long. Trying to make up for lost time.
Patty
Great suggestion on the death registrations! I have a slew of names from the
indices but I've hesitated to order all these films.
I think the tough thing about LDS centers is the way the computer files are
organized. In order to find the tithes or Griffith's lists you have to start
at Ireland - then go to land-then search through tons of listings until you
come to the right one. I haven't tried this on the online site yet. I hope
it's easier.
BUT in the midst of all this are many jewels. I spent a lot of money
requesting photocopies of Rosemary ffolliott's books from Ireland only to
find that the LDS has it on film. the center can also get the townland maps
on fiche and they will remain at your center.
My suggestion is to order or download the research guide for Ireland. It
costs $1 from the centers but is also at the online site. It shows what they
have and how it's organized. There is also a Research Guide for Latin which
helps with some of the church records.
Amy
"The Library also has microfilm copies of Pre-l871 marriage and death
CERTIFICATES for both Ireland and NI."
"Birth CERTIFICATES from l864 through March l881 and from l900 through
l9l3 for both Ireland and NI."
"Birth CERTIFICATES for the Republic of Ireland from 1930 through l955."
"Birth, marriage, and death CERTIFICATES for NI from 1922 through l959."
"Some registration CERTIFICATES of Irish subjects at sea, abroad, and in
the military"
If you're not researching to many names, an easy way to use the INDEX
films is to have photo-copies made of the relevent pages from the
microfilm, it could be a bit more costly than the extra cost of keeping
the film on permanent loan, but it does mean you don't have to go back
to the FHC just to look once again at a particular index film, it can
save a lot of time etc.
A question: where on this site is the Research Outline: Ireland? I
saw it once but didn't bookmark it and can't find it since then!
If you go to the above, go All Searches, go Film search, enter any BMD
index film number, you get plenty of links re what's on film.
Good luck,
Colman Ahern,
Parliamentary Division-Mid-Cork
District Electoral Division-Knocknatota
Constubalary District- Mallow
Sub-District- Rathduff
Barony- Barretts
Townland- Grenagh
Parish- Grenagh
Patrick Murphy, 31 yrs., RC
wife, Fanny, 30
children:
Mary, 4
Jeremiah, 2
John, 10 months
Jeremiah 60 yrs.- widower
Dennis Callaghan- 64 yrs.- RC
wife, Mary, 50
children:
Honora, 26
Ellen, 25
Michael, 23
John, 19
Cornelius, 14
James Corbett, 27 yrs.- single
sister, Lizzie Corbett, 25- single
niece, Mollie Mahony, 6
Jeremiah Mahony, 50 yrs.- RC
wife, Ellen, 40
children:
Mary, 8
Daniel, 7
John, 6
Thomas, 5
Hannora, 3
Jeremiah, 2
Margaret, 6 mos
New page, same info as above, but townland is Grenagh South:
James Mahony, 40 yrs., RC
wife, Ellie 33
children:
John, 13
Patrick, 7
Timothy, 3
Thomas, 2 mos.
Helen Corbett, 33yrs., postmistress, single
brother: Patrick, 31, shopkeeper, single
________________________
same info as above, but townland , Lyndane
John Lyons, head, 60 yrs., RC, labourer
wife, Mary, 50
___________________________
On this same film, but the follwing info is dofferent:
Constubalary Division-Queenstown
District Electoral Division- Carrigaline
Barony- Kerrycurrihy
Townland- Ringaskiddy
Anita
Philadelphia PA.
______________________________________________________________________________
From: Frstkid57@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:16:59 EDT
Subject: [Cork-L] LDS, Directories & Awaiting Mail
Hi All!!!
Anita
Philadelphia PA.
____________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shauna"
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:24:14 -0400
Subject: [Cork-L] LDS RECORDS
Hello everyone!
From: "Donna Shine"
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:17:27 -0700
Subject: [Cork-L] LDS Records
Good Luck,
Donna in Sacramento
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margaret A Moon
Subject: [Cork-L] LDS Centre's
Hi to all,
It appears things are a bit different in other countries how
these Centre's are run. I do know that here in Canada it is run in the
same manner as the Centre's in the US.
From: "michael cronin"
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:03:03 +1300
Subject: [Cork-L] LDS outside United States
Hello all,
Margaret's experience with the LDS is a little different from my own which
probably means they work in a different way outside the United States.
Wellington, New Zealand.
From: brittfla@webtv.net (Ellie Earley)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:13:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Cork-L] FHC
From: "Valerie"
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:50:33 -0400
Subject: Re: [Cork-L] True confession
Joyce House
8-11 Lombard St. East
Dublin 2
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:13:37 -0400
From: "Patty Pickett"
Subject: Re: [Cork-L] LDS - My perspective
From: DATULL@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:32:33 EDT
Subject: Re: [Cork-L] LDS Centre's
Hi Marg,
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:12:15 -0800
From: smokey@ziplink.net
Subject: Re: [Cork-L] LDS RECORDS
Hi,
Page 23 of my very grubby copy of the LDS Research Outline: Ireland,
says that "The FHC has microfilm copies of the civil registration
INDEXES of births, marriages, and deaths for Ireland and Northern
Ireland through 1958 (l959 for NI)". (Non catholic marriages indexes
start in l845, the rest in l864).
Berkeley.