Updated 12 Dec 2000
From various postings to Genexchange County Cork mailing list
Ellie Earley
Colman Ahern
Anita
Denis Grant
michael cronin
Margaret A Moon
From: brittfla@webtv.net (Ellie Earley)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 09:39:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Cork-L] Records mid-1800s
There are a set of records, sometimes called the Cancellation Books, which trace land occupation and ownership from right after Griffiths Valuation to (I think) 1954. They are available at the FHC and in Dublin.
There are 10 sets of books, and changes made during the different valuations are indicated by lines drawn thru the original entry with new tenants or owners written in. I am told that in Dublin the lines are different colors so you can tell exactly what year the change took place.
There doesn't seem to be a definite time period which caused them to stop using one set of books and begin another, but you need all 10 sets to follow the progression.
Ellie
They are listed at the following for Cork, under Land and Property,
"Valuation lists for Cork County". There are 3 films for Queenstown
Urban. Does anyone know which film would include Orelia Terrace in
Cobh? My grandmother Margaret Roche lived there when she was married
in l894. Perhaps it would show when her family first lived there, or
give a clue as to when her father James died, anything!!! Sorry, just
going a little cracked in the head trying to find any info on her
family! I have her birth in Whitegate from l867, nothing after that
until her marriage.
familysearch.org
There's also some info re these books in Grenham's "Tracing Your Irish
Ancestors".
Good luck,
Colman Ahern,
Berkeley.
Ellie, I want to thank you for reminder of the 'Cancellation Books.' In addition to what you have already so well described about them, I add here only the following from 'Tracing Your Cork Ancestors', by McCarthy and Cadogan;
"All the old records were retained and are available to researchers at the Valuation Office, Dublin. It is possible to get photocopies of the pages of the cancelled books that are relevant to your research. However, considering the use of colour already mentioned, the full picture may not come across in a photo copy."
If, like Michael and Sharon, you are lucky enough to have some copy of a
lease for land your ancestors owned, you can write the Valuation Office in
Dublin for guidance in obtaining information to trace these records back
further:
Valuation Office
Irish Life Complex
Middle Abbey Street, Dublin 1;
Phone: (01) 817-1000
Opening Hours: 9:30 AM to 12:30 PM, 2 PM to 4:30 PM.
Or, as both Ellie and Colman have suggested, and is probably far more practical for most of us, check your LDS centre, although I admit I couldn't find any film references for these Cancelled Books searching through their online catalog yesterday, but if you 2 say they are there, I believe you! I probably wasn't using the search words correctly.
Ok, also there are a few things of great interest available here on the web.
This page:
Fianna
contains a wonderful list of National Census/Substitues, a list of
Directories, Estate Records and Memorial Inscriptions, all specific to County
Cork.
Then there is Boole Library at UCC. If you haven't browsed through their
pages yet, there are all kinds of records that would be of interest, and
might be of some actual help, to those researching ancestors in Cork. Their
page:
Boole Library at UCC
And one final webpage I came across yesterday, it is of a man named Tony
Fitzgerald who is a professional genealogist and lives in New Zealand. But
this page contains much useful information, especially if you are somewhat
new to this journey of finding your Irish ancestors. But even after 8 years
of this search, I found this page to be extremely well organized in terms of
available Irish records, and if you scroll to the bottom of the page you'll
find a list of 'Miscellaneous Irish Records.'
Irish-research
No doubt there are hundreds of other webpages chock full of information also, but these 3, I think, are helpful in light of what we've recently been discussing. If any of you have suggestions of other webpages that also contain this kind of information, by all means, please let the rest of us know. Oh, and of course, lest I should forget, there are the National Library and National Archives of Ireland also!!
Take care all,
Anita
To look at what's available go to
Title: Land owners in Ireland to which is added a summary for each province
and for all Ireland : return of owners of land of one acre and upwards, in
the several counties, counties of cities, and counties of towns in Ireland,
showing the names of such owners arranged alphabeticallu in each county,
their addresses ... the extent in statute acres and the valuation ...
Authors: Ireland. Local Government Board (Main Author)
I loved your description of the visit to the Nat lib.....
I think it hits most people first time they ever visit the Nat lib and then they
spend/waste half their time just wandering round the shelves and getting to
know what exactly they can lay their hands on without having to request
it.....and wait for it to be brought to them....
Only a waste when they've got a few days in Dublin....other than that -
wonderful. only there's more to actually lay your hands on sraight off the
shelves in the Nat Archives - that's where I like best. Cold, uninspiriing
building - but I could wander those shelves for years and still foret where
I found what!...
Anyway.........what I have is different but not to what I've seen listed so
far.......mine is basics....Manuscript reference numbers and it will take me
a while to cover what's here cos I've got too many balls in the air right
now. I'm also not including any references I have for anywhere other than
the National Library or Archives........I can list others at a later date if
people want it.
one thing I'd appreciate: if any of these are actually on film at an LDS -
and anyone has looked at them, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know the
LDS ref so that i can tag it on alongside the Irish refs - thanks
Jane
National Archives:
Notes: Reprint of original published: Dublin : [s.n.], 1876.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cover title: Land owners in Ireland, 1876.
Copies
Call Number Location
941.5 R2ir FHL BRITISH Book
Format: Books/Monographs
Language: English
Publication: Baltimore : Genealogical Publishing Company, 1988
Physical: vi, 325 p.
ISBN/ISSN: 080631203 3
Subject Class: 941.5 R2
Denis
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:13:01 -0800
From: smokey@ziplink.net
Reply-To: smokey@ziplink.net
Subject: Re: [Cork-L] Estate records, County Cork Data
Hi,
When you get to,
familysearch
Go: Place Search
Enter: Cork, Ireland
Click on: Ireland, Cork
You get a partial list of records.
At the end of the page is a link to items 21 -40, open it.
More links!
One is: Ireland, Cork - Land and property, open it.
You get a list of 31 links, the first for Valuation Books is:
Valuation lists for Cork County, Bandon Rural District, 1856-1967.
Click on the View Film Notes link:
You get a list of 12 films.
The Valuation books seem to go by Electoral Division, not Registrars
District. For instance, the Townland of Slieve, civil parish Kane, Co.
Louth, is in the Registrars District of Barronstown, but also in the
Electoral Division of Faughart. The film number for Faughart would be
#856641.
Good luck,
Colman Ahern,
Berkeley.
From: "Denis Grant"
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:43:29 -0400
Subject: [Cork-L] LDS Ireland - Land and Property
These are the 70 items in the Ireland - Land and Property entry at the FHLC.
The entry is in the 181-200 group from the starting point when you choose
this link. Many of these have been filmed. If so the individual entries
will have View Film Notes in the upper right corner. If they have not been
filmed I believe that the FHL Utah will film them on request. This of
course takes some months and I don't know the conditions. Any of the filmed
items can of course be ordered up to a local FHC.
Topic: Ireland - Land and property
Abercorn papers , Abercorn, James Hamilton, Duke of, 1811-1885
Accounts of loans, Co. Roscommon and Westmeath, 1864-1893
Ancient Irish deeds and writings, chiefly relating to landed property from
the 12th to the 17th century... , Hardiman, James
Applotment books, abt. 1824-1840 , Ireland. Land Commission
Calendar of Ormond deeds, 1172-1615 , Curtis, Edmund, b. 1881
Calendar of Ormond deeds, suppl. to vols. I-VI
Calendar of the Gormanston register : from the original in the possession of
the Right Honourable the Viscount of Gormanston , Mills, James
Calendar of the Orrery papers , MacLysaght, Edward, 1887-1986
Calendar of Trustees' deed rolls, 1704
Chartularies of St. Mary's Abbey, Dublin : with the register of its house at
Dunbrody and annals of Ireland , Gilbert, Sir John Thomas, 1829-1898
The civil survey, A.D. 1654-1656 , Simington, Robert C
The compossicion book of Conought , Freeman, Alexander Martin
Cottesmore papers
Cromwellian inquisition as to parishes in County Armagh in 1657 , Paterson,
T. G. F. (Thomas George Farquhar)
The Downshire estates in Ireland, 1801-1848 : the management of Irish landed
estate in the early nineteen century , Maguire, W. A
Extents of Irish monastic possessions, 1540-1541 : from manuscripts in the
Public Record Office, London , White, Newport B
Extracts from Inquisitionum in Officio Rotolorum Cancellariae Hibermiae
asservatarum reportorum, Vol. II
Extracts from patent rolls of James the First , Crossle, Philip
Fisher's will and deed abstracts , Fisher, Denis O'Callaghan
Freeholders, Ireland : returns of the number of freeholders in the different
counties in Ireland, registered up to the 1st May 1831 ..
Genealogical collection of muster rolls, householders, wills, deeds, parish
registers , Groves, Tenison
General valuation of rateable property in Ireland , Ireland. General
Valuation Office
General valuation of rateable property in Northern Ireland, 1858-1864 ,
Ireland. General Valuation Office
The great landowners of Great Britain and Ireland , Bateman, John
Hill pedigree collection : collected by Arthur Hill , Hill, Arthur
An historical account of the plantation in Ulster at the commencement of the
seventeenth century, 1608-1620 , Hill, George, 1810-1900
Illustrated incumbered estates, Ireland, 1850-1905 , Lyons, Mary Cecelia
The Inchiquin manuscripts , Ainsworth, John
Inquisitionum in Officio Rotulorum Cancellariae Hiberniae asservatarum
reportorium
Ireland : registry of deeds, surname and county index 1708-1904, register of
contents , Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Genealogical
Department. Library Division
Ireland and the land question, 1800-1922 , Winstanley, Michael J
The Irish cartularies of Llanthony prima & secunda , Brooks, Eric St. John
Irish emigration lists, 1833-1839 : lists of emigrants extracted from the
Ordnance Survey memoirs for counties Londonderry and Antrim , Mitchell,
Brian
The Irish Fiants of the Tudor sovereigns during the reigns of Henry VIII,
Edward VI, Philip & Mary, and Elizabeth I
The Irish land laws , Richey, Alexander George
Irish Monastic and Episcopal deeds, A.D. 1200-1600 : transcribed from the
originals preserved at Kilkenny Castle, with appendix of documents of the
sixteenth and seventeenth centuries relating to Monastic property after the
dissolution , White, Newport B
Irish patent rolls of James I : facsimile of the Irish Record Commission's
calendar prepared prior to 1830 , Great Britain. Commissioners on the Public
Records of Ireland
Irwin pedigrees , Irwin, Sir Alfred MacDonald Bulteel
The Kenmare manuscripts , MacLysaght, Edward, 1887-1986
Land owners in Ireland to which is added a summary for each province and for
all Ireland : return of owners of land of one acre and upwards, in the
several counties, counties of cities, and counties of towns in Ireland,
showing the names of such owners arranged alphabeticallu in each county,
their addresses ... the extent in statute acres and the valuation ... ,
Ireland. Local Government Board
The Land war, 1879-1903 : facsimile documents , National Library of Ireland
(Dublin)
Landlords and tenants in Ireland, 1848-1904 , Vaughan, W. E. (William
Edward), 1944-
Landlords and tenants in mid-Victorian Ireland , Vaughan, W. E. (William
Edward), 1944-
The Landowner's and agents practical guide , Moleyns, Thomas de
The landowners of Ireland : an alphabetical list of the owners of estates of
500 acres or £500 valuation and upwards in Ireland with the acreage and
valuation in each county , De Burgh, U. H. Hussey
The law of landlord and tenant in Ireland , Smythe, Hamilton
The Lismore papers. First series : viz. autobiographical notes, remembrances
and diaries of Sir Richard Boyle, first and "great" Earl of Cork ... from
the original mss. belonging to His Grace, the Duke of Devonshire, preserved
in Lismore Castle , Cork, Richard Boyle, Earl of, 1566-1643
A List of the absentees of Ireland and an estimate of the yearly value of
their estates and incomes spent abroad ..
.
Miscellaneous genealogical records
A new lease on life : landlords, tenants, and immigrants in Ireland and
Canada , Wilson, Catherine Anne, 1958-
Original documents deposited with the Belfast Public Record Office,
1750-1908 , Northern Ireland. Public Record Office of Northern Ireland
(Belfast)
Patent roll extracts for Ireland
Records of the Rolls : abstracts of all the involvements of lands, deeds and
other matters of property remaining of record in the Rolls Office of the
High Court of Chancery and in Bermingham Tower from the 3rd year of King
Edward I ... to King George II [1274-1760] , Lodge, John, d. 1774
The Red Book of Ormond : from the fourteenth century original preserved at
Kilkenny Castle, with missing portions supplied from the fifteenth century
transcript in the Bodleian Library , White, Newport B
Register of the hospital of S. John the Baptist without the New Gate, Dublin
, Brooks, Eric St. John
Registry of Deeds, Dublin, abstracts of wills , Ireland. Registry of Deeds
Rent roll of the estate of the Rt. Hon. Edward Southwell
Rentals of encumbered Irish estates, pre 1860
Report from Select Committee on County Cess (Ireland), with the minutes of
evidence, appendex and index. , Select Committee on County Cess (Ireland)
Return of owners of land of one acre and upwards in the several counties,
... cities, and ... towns in Ireland ...
Returns of the number of persons registered as freeholders ... in all cities
... in Ireland during the last seven years
Schedule of documents Church Temporalities : lodged in records branch
applotment book
A sketch of the law of property inland in Ireland : eight lectures delivered
in Dublin and Belfast during Michaelmas Sittings, 1935 and 1936, at the
request of the Council of the Institute , Leet, Ernest F
Stipendary priests and disfranchised freeholders
Tithe applotment books and indexes, for Northern Ireland, ca. 1822-1837 ,
Ireland. Land Commission
Transactions of the Royal Irish Academy , Hardinge, W. H
Transcript of documents on file in the Belfast Public Record Office ,
Northern Ireland. Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (Belfast)
Transcripts of memorials of conveyances and wills, 1708-1929 , Ireland.
Registry of Deeds
The Trinity College estates, 1800-1923 : corporate management in an age of
reform , MacCarthy, Robert B
Upton papers , Upton, Henry A. S
Cheers,
Denis
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:27:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margaret A Moon
Reply-To: Margaret A Moon
Subject: RE: [Cork-L] Copies from LDS
Hi to all,
I have been reading and learning from some of the posts that have
been put on. I thank all of you for such an interesting topic.
I also read that someone said you could have Salt Lake Photocopy
book or copy a film. Not true.
I used to volunteer at an LDS for four years, even now that I
don't do the volunteering I'm still asked , by the even the Director,how
things are done. If you want things photocopied from a book, you can
request up to 8 pages. This forces you to have the index of said book
copied first, so that you may determine which chapter or the few pages
you wished copied. When at the Centre you must ask for the Slip request
for photocopy, you send it to send it to Salt Lake not the Centre. If the
chapter is long, you can tell, it will be a long drawn out process. But it
can be done. They will not copy a film and send it to you.
Marg
From: "Denis Grant"
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:20:29 -0400
Subject: [Cork-L] Microfilm Copies from LDS
Hi Margaret,
I have now traced my source which is 'Research at The Family History Center,
Penelope Christensen, Toronto 1997, Heritage Productions.
"Books may not be circulated to Family History Centers, but there is a
special green form entitled 'Request to Microfilm a Book' available from the
staff. There is no charge for this except for the usual film or fiche
charge."
I'm sure I read another discussion of this in genealogy circles which said
part of the reason the process takes some time is that the FHL may have to
get permission from the copright holder.
It would certainly help to get the definitive answer to this one.
Denis
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:29:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margaret A Moon
Subject: Re: [Cork-L] Microfilm Copies from LDS
Hi Denis,
I know about this request form, but I also have many friends who
tried to do this, to no avail. If it's copyrighted there is a slim chance
of it being done. I know my friends have been very disappointed. They
usually turn to the ISBN # and go the Public library root, or they try to
purchase it out right. The LDS just don't have the staff, it's all
volunteer in Salt Lake and great deal of turn over. When you request a
portion of a book, you are not infringing on the copyright, thus for your
own personal use.
Marg
From: "Jane Lyons"
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:02:17 +0100
Subject: Estate records Re: [Cork-L] Lismore papers - are they worth looking for
PS I'm assuming that any rental rolls listed for different periods would
cover different parts of the estates...it would be necessary to look at any
lists of what estates he owned and when to be able to cross reference or
maybe take a guess /do some research to find out which rentals referred to
which places.
Name: Years covered: Type of manuscript: Reference
Carroll: 1843-67 Deeds D23557-63 & M5346
Dennis : 17th - 20th centuries Legal papers; Landlords or members of Landlords family 1095/1
National Library:
Name: years covered: Type of Manuscript: Reference
Ashe : 1844 Maps with names of tenants included 15B.22: 3; 27
Bantry: 1840-81 Lists Evicted tenants; Agents; Landlords or members f Landlords family Ms. 8599
Bennet: 1846 Maps with names of tenants included 15B.22: 33
Bowen : 1847-66 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rents for year or 6 months Pos. 5553
Clanwilliam :17th - 20th centuries Landlords or members of landlords family Unsorted
Crofton 1823-51 Rentals: Rolls etc; Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Ms 8151
Crofton 1824-67 Coll. Vouchers, bills, receipts Nat. Lib Ms. 20788
Crofton 1824-67 Coll. Vouchers, bills, receipts Nat. Lib Mss. 20791-2
Crofton 1840-60 Landlords or members of landlords family; Info on relief work & relief committees Nat. Lib Mss. 20777-9
Crofton 1845-60 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rents for year or 6 months; Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Ms 20,781
Cuthbert 1839-53 Demesne & Farm acounts Nat. Lib Ms. 4731
Devonshire 1749-1859 Leases Nat. Lib Ms. 6199
Devonshire 1808-50 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rents for year or 6 months Nat. Lib Mss. 6843-74
Devonshire 1811-67 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months Nat. Lib Pos. 2792-4
Devonshire 1815-60 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months Nat. Lib Mss. 6792-817
Devonshire 1815-70 Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Mss. 6990-7039
Devonshire 1816-90 Leases Nat. Lib Mss. 6185; 6191
Devonshire 1817-70 Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Mss.7062-114
Devonshire 1818-90 Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Ms. 6929
Devonshire 1823-42 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months Nat. Lib Mss. 6780-90
Devonshire 1825-96 Deeds; Leases Nat. Lib Ms. 7130
Devonshire 1826-55 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months Nat. Lib Mss. 6755-72
Devonshire 1826-60 Leases Nat. Lib Ms. 6171
Devonshire 1831-57 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months Nat. Lib Lismore R/6
Devonshire 1832-40 Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Ms. 6924
Devonshire 1835-47 Mode of tenenancy: Yearly or at will Nat. Lib Mss. 7127-3
Devonshire 1835-59 Estates Nat. Lib Mss. 7127-9
Devonshire 1839-51 Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Mss. 6933-44
Devonshire 1840 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months Nat. Lib Ms. 6703
Devonshire 1840-56 petitions & proposals from tenants; Emigrant lists; info. On relief work & Relief committees Nat. Lib Lismore T/2-21
Devonshire 1841 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months Nat. Lib Ms. 6168
Devonshire 1842-60 Correspondance: Agents, Tenants Nat. Lib Mss. 7182-4
Devonshire 1843-47 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months; Info on Poor Law Unions, workhouses & rates Nat. Lib Mss. 6732-5
Devonshire 1843-48 Leases Nat. Lib Ms.6198
Devonshire 1843-71 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months: Estate accounts Nat. Lib mss. 7044-61
Devonshire 1844-60 Mode of tenenancy: Yearly or at will Nat. Lib Ms. 7129
Devonshire 1845 Mode of tenenancy: Yearly or at will Nat. Lib Ms. 6169
Devonshire 1845-50 Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Ms. 7206
Devonshire 1845-83 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months Nat. Lib Mss. 6823-42
Devonshire 1846-50 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months;: info ON PLU's,Workhouses & Rates Nat. Lib Mss. 6818-22
Devonshire 1847-55 Vouchers, bills, receipts Nat. Lib Mss. 6736-8
Devonshire 1848-56 Vouchers, bills, receipts Nat. Lib Mss. 6742-3
Devonshire 1848-86 Correspondance: Agents & Others Nat. Lib Mss. 7185-92
Devonshire 1851-59 Estate Accounts Nat. Lib Mss. 6970-7
Devonshire 1852-55 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months: info on PLU's. Workhouses & rates Nat. Lib Mss. 6739
Devonshire 1853-56 Rentals: Rolls with tenants names or rent for years or 6 months; Info on Poor Law Unions, workhouses & rates; Estate accounts Nat. Lib Ms. 6742-4
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